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It bothers you that even with significant redactions, with Barr’s whitewash attempt, with constant dodging of subpoenas, without hearing testimony from Mueller...it bothers you to no end how a regular citizen can quote portions of the report that undermine the “nothing to see here” narrative you constantly push and the “Total Exoneration” narrative your idol of Narcissistic destruction sweatily prays will be universally accepted if he just says it enough. If you don’t like what I’m quoting from the actual report, then directly quote it yourselves. Get yourself a copy and pore over it like it’s a Trixie post.

I agree that saying what the law is and nothing further can be intellectually boring in a debate like this. There are lots of laws that people hate....it is legal for me to buy an assault rifle in the U.S. Just repeating that probably wouldn't fly in a debate about gun laws. But here's a case for keeping abortion legal with no strings attached from a moral standpoint and not simply legal definitions: 1. Fewer than 1% of abortions occur after 24 weeks and the ones that do occur are almost entirely due to complications in the pregnancy. I use 24 weeks since that is about when fetus approaches a 50% chance of viability outside the womb. We don't have a parade of women lining up to get abortions at 24+ weeks and never have at any point. 2. Most of the attempts to restrict abortions come with conditions and disclosure bullshit. This in itself is threatening to the woman who may try to conceal a pregnancy even if it going wrong or even worse, have them attempt an abortion outside of a medically safe environment to avoid discovery. 3. Abortions that are necessary due to medical issues themselves becomes at risk in these bills. What constitutes an acceptable medical risk? If a woman develops preeclampsia or placental abruption, do we need to wait until she is about to die for the doctors to get the green light for abortion? Or will they and the woman be charged with murder if they do the procedure before it was clear the woman's life was in danger? What is the law protecting at this point? These cases are the overwhelming majority of abortions beyond 20-24 weeks. Yet, we may be putting laws in place that jeopardize these types of procedures because we're worried about grey areas where murder might be charged. It's the old flawed case of sacrificing an entire army of people to save one man. The moral case in the points above is that the woman's privacy and safety supercede the hypothetical scenario of 32 week fetuses being killed just because the woman didn't feel like going through the last month of pregnancy or changed her mind. Yes, hypothetically that could happen with no strings attached....but it never does. What these bills do are directly put the woman's health in danger....that's a far bigger civil rights issue than hypothetical mass murder of30 week fetsuses IMHO.

I think this is an important point that I need to make. I have not personally had to get an abortion, or even been in a position that I have to consider one. However, I know someone who has. Close someone (family member). Prior to her having to do it, she was pro-life. But until it happens to you, and you actually have to think about the implications of carrying a fetus to term at 17 years old, no job, no money, living with mommy and daddy... you have no idea what you would do. The burden of having to make that choice was horrible to watch from afar. Its not an easy decision to make. Ever. The argument that women use abortions as forms of birth control is silly. The argument women wake up at 39 weeks and say fuck it, I don't want this fetus, is even more ridiculous. I will never understand how mostly men can make these decisions when they will NEVER know what its like to be the one who has to actually go through the consequences of either 1. getting an abortion or 2. being forced to bring a fetus to term because an abortion wasn't an option.

From what I’ve seen, you stand for nothing.

"Trump is is successful businessman, so he'll be able to run this country just as well" Tax returns show Trump is a terrible businessman "Who cares about his taxes."

Hacks... Everytime I think I want to debate, I think better of it. And no Phin, I don't think I'm better than anyone or above it all. It's infuriating and pointless. Nothing matters anymore. Facts don't mean anything.

Is that wrong?

"Why can't Mueller say a crime occurred but he couldn't prosecute? " may be one of the dumbest things I've ever seen written on this forum, even with the Metfan curve in effect. Holy shitballs.

I decided not to even reply or engage him after what happened. But imma take a minute here because he’s lying. And I know you know that, but for anyone new here. I would have never said the things I said had he left my girlfriend out of the conversation. He’s going to lie and say He wasn’t referring to her, but that’s like me saying I hope a president dies tonight in Washington DC. Sure, I could be talking about Obama, but seriously? And then, after seeing how offended I was, doubled down, so the pig shit knew what he was doing. There’s not one time in my “15 years take outs” that I’ve been quite that vile. He won and I let him win because he set me off. Y’all know there are very few things that set me off like that. One are my kids (as the hate board knows) and the other is her. I’m not a dumb animal who can’t control himself, I kept going because I wanted to keep going. I suspended myself later because I broke the rules. Admin doesn’t give me the right to offend all of the women here, so I did what I felt was necessary. So, I decided that if somebody can piss me off that much, it’s time to just ignore and keep it moving. I have zero regard for him. If he died tomorrow, the word would be a better place. He and his boys will frame it as me being scared to debate him blah blah blah, ignoring years of the fact that I was one of the few here to engage him until he came after my girl. Now I see why people here ignore him and I wish the few who are left responding would too. He deserves not one ounce of respect or regard. Let him talk to himself. I’d rather engage jonger than him, and that’s pure masochism. Like I said, he won and that’s fine. I don’t need anyone to defend me. I’d just rather move on and forget the whole thing to be honest. He was right about one thing tho in this thread. I’ve always had terrible judgement when it comes to people. He’s exhibit A.

I hope it comes soon. I’ve come to the point where I don’t care how. The thread I create that day will probably be the most toxic we've seen yet. Actually there’s a board member’s death I’d celebrate almost the same.

They've done a series of interviews on CNN/MSNBC and every last farmer said they had regrets for voting for Trump. I wanted to climb through the TV and yell "we told you".

Whatever his point is, keep in mind that it's coming from a guy who holds a snowmobile death wish in higher regard than his wife and children. His body His choice

Look at you, trying to be an armchair lawyer and cornholing people into binary responses. Very cute. But I'll entertain it. The simple answer is yes, there is enough evidence to impeach on OOJ. So your natural reply would be, "Why don't they impeach him, right now, this very second?" If they impeach, and the Trump stalwarts aren't swayed (shamed?) enough to convict, that's a huge victory for Trump. That would be total exoneration to his base. These are not normal times. If they were, this idiot wouldn't be anywhere near the White House.

Trump is the least professional president this country has ever seen. He is a two-bit, lying grifter who would cuddle up with the world's worst if it would gain him a few bucks or some extra votes. Despite this obvious truth, you'd rather focus on "liberal whining." Yeah, that's the real problem here. Get your shit together, man.

furthermore, the GOP are doing everything they can to limit healthcare. i mean for fucks sakes... jonger you cheered that a practicing health clinic shut it doors and went as far to lie about how they were run out of your community. who does that? that clinic provided services for women who were in desperate need of care, at a cost they could afford. the clinic didn't even provide abortion services, yet you want to cheer about that? how can you on one hand try and fight for a zygote, but then completely ignore the mother who needs the healthcare to carry that zygote to full term (if she so chooses). limiting the healthcare available to make sure the zygote does grow and thrive is not going to work out as you hope it will. more abortions will occur. more women will die because in these states where the poor are hit the hardest, it will be back ally coat hanger abortions that are done instead.

no, I'm not happy. you're too concerned with trying to own libs over a fucking zygote that you can't even admit the these laws are completely ridiculous. otherwise you would have instead of trying to move the goalposts. you dont give a shit how it impacts the mother, in any of these cases. as long as those zygotes gets to thrive and be born then fuck them, who cares after that.

100%. And "independents" would have been fine with it. I'm well aware impeachment won't lead to a conviction but it has to be done or truely nothing matters anymore.

Because I think logically and believed that it just didn’t make sense. To me, it was sensational at the time and unbelievable. But again, you were right. Kudos.

You guys are on the wrong side of history. Carry on.

Here you go! Good lord there are a lot of these.

He praised a general who committed treason and not only kept humans as property himself, but when he passed through areas of FREED slaves, he enslaved them again. Very fine people. On both sides. God please save this nation from this man.

Probably a better use of the word would be along the lines of "I took a huge, corn-infested Trump this morning" or "Phin looks funny with all that Trump smeared around his lips".

people need to stop quoting him.

Ok @Consensual Rape, today deserves it

Do you mean to take responsibility for the possible result of having sex? I agree. There is plenty of bullshit to go around. If a fetus could read and saw this thread it would probably abort itself.

This thread...

His biggest move was convincing dopes like you to vote for him.

Not all. During 90-91, Fred Trump’s returns showed a positive income of $53.9 million, with only one major loss: $15 million invested in his son’s latest apartment project. Daddy dearest.

Hard to be fake when theres an email acknowledging the incident from mar a lago and the receipt itself in the pro publica article. Keep sucking Trump's dick you cuck.

No one is getting fucking owned. This bill was to help reduce the burden on mothers/parents who need to have a late term medical procedure done due to the fact that the fetus was not normal and wouldn't live outside the womb. I'm not parsing over the misinformed words of these two people when anyone with common sense knows what the intent of the bill was and the language of the bill never said a healthy baby was to be born and then killed. thats what Trump implied and wants his base to believe. that Dems want to murder babies. Its flat out fucking wrong and you choose to defend that shit over what two people said and make Trumps case. The bill is not moving ahead anyways. But rage on, fuckface. you say you are pro-choice but goddamn you are just as bad as the far right wing nuts

All anyone has to do is read the report and then read Barr's summary.